Shopping

Lyssoryl · August 13, 2008, 12:25 AM

Is it kosher to do minor bits of shopping by just making up prices and writing them on your list?

For example, let's say I want a silver plated pickle fork, and that I live in a large city which presumably should have a place that sells pickle forks, but no one has bothered to put one on a price list. Do I have to find a moderator and badger them into giving me a price, or role playing the purchase of the fork? Or can I just kind of go "eh, cheap pickle fork, that'd be about 5 gc" and write it on my list?

I find the difficulty in shopping for trifles to be somewhat enervating, but perhaps I'm taking it too seriously.

Kaelon · August 13, 2008, 12:32 AM

Firstly, I don't think you're taking it too seriously -- and I appreciate you asking this question.

Secondly, our ultimate goal is to get a standardized price list in place so that all moderators and players can have a "base" set of values to figure out what something is worth. In lieu of that, we have only best practices -- and price lists that other cities are using. There's nothing wrong to make up some values and see if they work for your store/location, but you should be prepared to alter them based upon feedback that you receive.

Ultimately, I hope to have a comprehensive price list released for our users, but it's taken a lower priority since I have been working on some software for our site. I should be picking that project back up in the next couple of weeks and hope to have a comprehensive listing of prices available by that time.

Thank you!
Juan

Lyssoryl · August 13, 2008, 01:14 AM

Hmm...I'm not so much thinking of prices for a store, but more as an individual shopper.

For example, perhaps I want to start a post with

"Lyssoryl stopped before the store window and seeing her reflection in the glass, she pulled out a comb and began fixing her hair. Her hair was not cooperative today, and she made an angry face at its reflection. Suddenly, she realized that there were people inside the store looking out at her through the window, and a deep blush suffused her face."

But then I realize that I don't own a comb. I should have one, it is the kind of thing I would have. So I look down the local shopping lists and don't see one. Running down a moderator just to tell me how much a comb costs, which can take several days real time, seems like a lot of effort to have to go through for an item that is essentially a prop for one post, but on the other hand I could see why it wouldn't be good to have people making up their own prices.

Alexis Sapientia · August 13, 2008, 01:16 AM

You could also base it on the Big Price List, plus or minus a few crowns for local variables and variances.

Gossamer · August 13, 2008, 03:42 AM

Lyssoryl-

When I hand out starting packages, I give out what I call 'Personal Effects' that include a set of clothing and toiletries. I like cleanness, and when people ask I always say toiletries constitute a comb, brush, toothbrush, tooth powder, soap etc. The way I look at it, your pc should have a budget of about 20 crowns a month that go just for little things... those 'personal effects' scarfs, little handbags, new socks, little hair combs etc. I don't track everything my PC purchases on her CIR finances unless its a big item, piece of clothing, or a special gift etc. If she buys a horse or a piece of eq for that animal, it goes on there. If she pays a salary to an employee.. it goes on there... but don't sweat the little things. Just budget yourself a figure that sounds fair in your mind... based on how much your PC makes or how much coin she has, and then use that figure as part of her monthly expenses and feel free to pull a comb out of her bag to comb her hair etc. She'll have a fingernail file or a little pair of scissors or perhaps a hair pin if she has long hair. You cant possibly think of everything she'd need, nor do you have to micromanage finances. If she owns a house that has a dining room, assume shes got good silver and china as part of her living expense.

If you need to buy that escargo fork, then just pick a number you think is reasonable and subtract it from your finances... or take it out of your misc expenses fund... whatever.

There are no hard fast rules for what your asking and they do change from city to city and from moderator to moderator. I can assure you in ZS, if you want a salad fork, you can probably find one, self mod a post in the emporium and have the shopkeeper dig one out for you... and he'd probably even monogram it for you... all self moderated. If you are reasonable as a PC, the mods are going to be as well... and no request or unusual item is too silly. Seriously, its the little details that make the game so much fun.

Adelyn Weiss · August 13, 2008, 03:47 PM

Like Goss said... you can subtract living expenses and just sort of assume that's where the comb came out from. Every month I subtract something called, "living expenses" and that value is dependent on what job my PC currently has, if she's staying at a friend's house, or currently at her own home, etc. No way am I going to make an entire post for a tiny comb (I mean, you could... but personally am too lazy to do that... hah).

I assume all the tiny stuff, incl. food per cycle is accounted for in those monthly living expenses. Only items of note do I purchase and RP it out at a shop. (:

Alys · August 13, 2008, 07:07 PM

But...I think the question was more along the lines of, suppose a player wants to have a PC shopping, perhaps as a setup for a future scene, perhaps as just a way to allow a meet with other characters who would not logically come other places a PC goes. Presumably at some point the character is going to actually buy something, so, can the price just be determined by the player, or is it necessary, for an item bought IC, to have the city mod determine the price?

A couple of comments on big price lists. First, local variations ought to be huge, supply and demand and transport costs are going to really change prices. Fish should be cheap at a port, prohibitively expensive in the desert, ice would be cheap in winter, expensive in summer, pickle forks of high quality are likely going to vary in price according to how many soirees are held that season...

Second, only rich people pay cash asking prices. Most people should barter and haggle--even in our modern world, haggling over prices still extensively exists in other than the very wealthiest countries. So, the price paid for that pickle fork is going to depend greatly on how much the character needs it, how badly the owner wants to sell, how many vendors of pickle forks are in the immediate vicinity, and how hardnosed the character is at negotiation.

Gossamer · August 13, 2008, 08:19 PM

Quote:

But...I think the question was more along the lines of, suppose a player wants to have a PC shopping, perhaps as a setup for a future scene, perhaps as just a way to allow a meet with other characters who would not logically come other places a PC goes. Presumably at some point the character is going to actually buy something, so, can the price just be determined by the player, or is it necessary, for an item bought IC, to have the city mod determine the price?

It depends on the GM and the city. In Zinn'Sunn, I'm fine with this scenario completely as long as its mundane common items aka the comb or pickle fork. If there's an issue or question, someone will point it out... meaning someone buying some jewelsteel gauntlets for 50 gold crown or something.... or finding a rare blue diamond at a bazaar etc. Most GMs, myself included, would put their foot down and say 'woah woah woah... no way' if we saw something like that. But I think Lyssoryl is talking mundane things... and thats absolutely great.

Quote:

Second, only rich people pay cash asking prices. Most people should barter and haggle--even in our modern world, haggling over prices still extensively exists in other than the very wealthiest countries. So, the price paid for that pickle fork is going to depend greatly on how much the character needs it, how badly the owner wants to sell, how many vendors of pickle forks are in the immediate vicinity, and how hardnosed the character is at negotiation.

I agree completely. Haggling is a lot of fun and totally encouraged.

Quote:

A couple of comments on big price lists. First, local variations ought to be huge, supply and demand and transport costs are going to really change prices. Fish should be cheap at a port, prohibitively expensive in the desert, ice would be cheap in winter, expensive in summer, pickle forks of high quality are likely going to vary in price according to how many soirees are held that season...

I agree... check in Kaelon's signature though. He's got a link to a symposium roundtable that allows you to comment and give some input on the proposed Aelyrian Economy.

Dimnersti · August 13, 2008, 08:39 PM

assumed spending money is a fine thing to add to your CIR, it allows alot of small assumptions while keeping you covered. Personaly I think the issue is more whats a reasnoble assumed cost per month. I had 2000 crowns or so, but I assumed good food, silk clothing and the sort. If your just assuming minor things you can go with a far smaller cost.

Lyssoryl · August 19, 2008, 10:01 AM

I will assume 2000 crowns a month expenses assuming I can assume I have a magic fairy friend that sneezes gold boogers. Otherwise I might come up short.

Alys · August 19, 2008, 06:28 PM

Well, it is traditional for a young lady to end up overspending her budget before the end of every month, is it not?!? Hence the reason to find someone to foot the bills!

Dimnersti · August 19, 2008, 07:10 PM

heh, well you could assume something as low as 50 crowns a month. But then your eating potato soup with a slab of flat bread everyday(assuming you dont somehow provide your own food), and your small extra purchases are a relative rarity.

heh, its just figuring out whats apropriate for your income and what that tends to infer in your available luxuries. heh i'd offer an idea but I'v no idae on the relative poorness or wealth of our pc.