Old March 27, 2018, 07:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Aelyria Rules Hotpatch 3.409

Good morning, everyone.

We are gathered here today for a small rules change to do with how experience works.

In the past characters have gained one experience point per thread or two if they did a lot of stuff. Going forward we will be removing that cap, you can now gain as many experience points as you are able to earn throughout a thread.

The difference will be mainly in how you earn them, it's no longer enough just to use your skill to gain experience, you have to meet specific goals to do so. A fighting skill will make you have to face off against a worthy opponent, a magic skill will have you try to gather new knowledge on magic, etc.

Peer moderators are encouraged to point out to staff what a character has done to earn experience points.

In addition, we have thrown in a little something to maybe make things a little easier for those of you out there with crafting skills, or who are itching to imbue something. The introduction of Material Points which more or less signify how much time and resources a character gets between threads, these points can be turned into things in game, like a blacksmith might use them to make an axe, or a mage an imbuement.

For more information, please read here.

If you have questions, please ask.
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Old March 27, 2018, 08:03 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Interesting change! I think this will encourage more creative thinking within threads, which should make for some fun but challenging narratives.

Probably the most obvious question that springs to mind, is regarding what happens with XP threads that have already been started. Assuming they have mod plans approved for them, are they likely to be honoured?

We used to be able to gain combat skills via sparring, where two people are usually fairly evenly matched. Are the XP points from those at risk (even for existing threads with approved mod plans)?

What does a moderator look for when deciding whether or not to award Material Points? The link doesn't appear to specify, except to say that they may be earned. How do we earn them?
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Old March 27, 2018, 08:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moss Oktra'rek View Post
Probably the most obvious question that springs to mind, is regarding what happens with XP threads that have already been started. Assuming they have mod plans approved for them, are they likely to be honoured?
They will probably be honoured, we will deal with this on a case by case basis.

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Originally Posted by Moss Oktra'rek View Post
We used to be able to gain combat skills via sparring, where two people are usually fairly evenly matched. Are the XP points from those at risk (even for existing threads with approved mod plans)?
For existing ones, no. Future ones, yes.

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Originally Posted by Moss Oktra'rek View Post
What does a moderator look for when deciding whether or not to award Material Points? The link doesn't appear to specify, except to say that they may be earned. How do we earn them?
As a rule you gain 1 MP per thread, 2 MP may be awarded if you're specifically doing things to gain money/resources/craft things.
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Old March 27, 2018, 10:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
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So, MPs are basically like...off camera crafting purchases? Like if someone wants to, they can still do a thread where they go, get materials and craft an item long-term, but if they had some MPs they could use one or more to say, fulfill the crafting request for themselves or another outside of a traditional thread?
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Old March 27, 2018, 11:13 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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So, MPs are basically like...off camera crafting purchases? Like if someone wants to, they can still do a thread where they go, get materials and craft an item long-term, but if they had some MPs they could use one or more to say, fulfill the crafting request for themselves or another outside of a traditional thread?
Pretty much, yes. It needs to be something you'd be able to do at your skill level and how much you get out of it will depend on how able you are to take advantage of that skill. A blacksmith with their own forge will get more out of it than a blacksmith without a forge.
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Old March 28, 2018, 12:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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As a rule you gain 1 MP per thread, 2 MP may be awarded if you're specifically doing things to gain money/resources/craft things.
Are there specific threads that gain 1 MP? Or can any thread fit that criteria, including social ones? Does the MP have to be used on a skill or craft or item related to the thread where it was earned?
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Old March 28, 2018, 03:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Interesting.

I have a few questions to ask.

1. So we gain 1 MP per thread, regardless of what happened like What Moss ask above.
If I have a workshop, do I gain more immediately?

2. In the future, if I am training others in alchemy, is it XP worthy?

3. Can I still roleplay crafting item out without MP and still gain that item and XP?


Not a question, more of a suggestion.
4. Do we get passive MP for owning a shop at the end of every month?
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Old March 28, 2018, 07:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moss Oktra'rek View Post
Are there specific threads that gain 1 MP? Or can any thread fit that criteria, including social ones? Does the MP have to be used on a skill or craft or item related to the thread where it was earned?
You only get MP for threads that require moderation. It does not have to be used on something related to that thread, but it does have to be used on one of your skills and potentially possessions (in the instances where you own something like a farm, a mine, a shipping business, or something to that effect).

MP is basically a resource that represents the time and resources you have between threads and gives you a way to use that.

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Originally Posted by Cherjaine View Post
1. So we gain 1 MP per thread, regardless of what happened like What Moss ask above.
If I have a workshop, do I gain more immediately?
No. You get more out of using MP if you have a workshop, you do not gain more MP. The instances of getting 2 MP will be for threads that are specifically aimed at your character getting resources, crafting things, and things like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherjaine View Post
2. In the future, if I am training others in alchemy, is it XP worthy?
Maybe? The qualifiers that cause you to get more experience are all listed, if your thread fulfils one or more of these, then you do, if it doesn't you don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherjaine View Post
3. Can I still roleplay crafting item out without MP and still gain that item and XP?
Yes, you can still roleplay crafting things. Whether you get experience for that or not will depend on if it fits any of the qualifiers listed.

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4. Do we get passive MP for owning a shop at the end of every month?
No. If you want to get MP to work with you need to be active and complete threads.
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Old September 25, 2018, 12:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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My apologies that I'm a little late to the party. Since I've become more active again this has been recently brought to my attention.

Now I was originally halfway through writing a large post, but instead I'll simplify it down.

Why does the Magic skill qualifiers lack access to the combat skill ones?

While I can see some of the magic based skills benefiting from a research/understanding based approach (looking at you spellbreaking with crafting and ikonomancy with the search for additional runes), the sphere based system as its currently written is essentially for many a magic based combat skill.

Now while I do know that level 4 and 5 Arcana have in theory basically used the above qualifiers for some years now, in that simply using your skills to blow stuff up isn't enough to get to master and above, changing that for low levels would be not only odd but potentially stop progression for a few people dead. A lot in the way of research and understanding, comes from trying out using said skills in a practical manner at lower levels.
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Old September 25, 2018, 01:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm pressed for time here so I'll keep it short but I can elaborate if need be.

Quote:
Why does the Magic skill qualifiers lack access to the combat skill ones?
If you make a character who is a magical researcher and works intimately with magic they should be able to advance faster in their magic skill than someone who uses it as a supplementary skill to help them kill things faster.
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Old September 25, 2018, 01:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Agreed, researching in such a way should have them advance faster. Or rather, give them a benefit for doing so where previously there may have not been.

But I'm given to understand that there aren't any qualifiers for direct combat with magic atm? Speed isn't really the question here, but rather whether one can advance using that method at all. Are we being railroaded away from combat advancement (Even if its just slow) and into purely research?

Also, a line of thought exists for someone that isn't using it just as a supplementary skill but as a primary skill to kill things faster~

Battlemages of the empires armies. Pirates that have one exclusively for the ability to bombard other ships. Mercenary companies that keep one or more in employ for those difficult situations (And to get away from the 'thats guild based exp' available) the rogue wandering mage. They may not research, but their practical knowledge and advancement surely merits the benefits that seem to be given mostly to the combat based skills.

There's also the 'there's no reason why combat couldn't be considered research' approach?
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Old September 25, 2018, 01:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Are we being railroaded away from combat advancement (Even if its just slow) and into purely research?
For that specific qualifier, yes. But keep in mind that you never really got experience for using arcana in combat, it was just a matter of, "Did you use skill X? Cool. Have some experience for it." Now we qualify how you get that experience, so that you have to use it in a way that follows the spirit of the skill, rather than just throwing proverbial fireballs at the wall.

And even so, you still have two more qualifiers that are valid. Like every other skill you can still Do Cool Stuff That Impresses Your Moderator™ or you can join some kind of arcane guild or coven or something and do stuff for them that will make them want to help you.

Experience has moved away from being about strictly using the skill to how and why you use it. If you're part of the Imperial Mage Corps you could probably get experience fighting, because that's what they want you to do.

Don't get me wrong, you can fight things in a thread and get magic experience, it's just not the actual fighting you're getting experience for. Maybe that's just a hurdle you need to cross to get to some kind of ancient tome or something.

So to go over some of the examples you mentioned.

Quote:
Battlemages of the empires armies.
These guys have strong teachers, they've got people around them that helps teach them how to deal with combat magic, so they've got people helping them out and teaching them. While they're not necessarily doing research they're learning new things which is what this is about.

Quote:
Pirates that have one exclusively for the ability to bombard other ships. Mercenary companies that keep one or more in employ for those difficult situations.
If someone asks me for these types as NPCs, I'd generally say that they are, quite frankly, unlikely to be above lvl 1 or 2 mages, because they haven't got people backing them up, they're not part of any strong academy or anything like that. These are the kinds of people that peak at level 3 and getting there takes a lot longer than it would otherwise, because while they've got people backing them up, none of them are likely to know anything about magic, so they're left to their own devices and taking time away from being a pirate or mercenary to study magic is rarely in the cards.

Quote:
the rogue wandering mage
This one's a little difficult, because it's a bit of a broader archetype. I mean, if you take rogue wandering mages out of literature I feel like they're usually out there looking for arcane secrets and gathering powerful spells and things like that. Which is exactly what the first qualifier is for. (See, Raistlin of Dragonlance, Rand al'Thor of Wheel of Time, Kvothe of the Kingkiller Chronicle, etc etc)

Really, I feel like the only circumstance in which mages gain experience for strictly fighting things is video games and DnD, neither of which is a terribly good fit for Aelyria. Mostly because they level up a person, rather than a skill, which is not what this does.

I feel like you're getting caught up on the "research" part. Which isn't what this is about. The qualifier says:
Quote:
Experience in magic skills is awarded when the player character seeks out new knowledge or understanding of their magic skill.
Seeking out new knowledge or understanding isn't the same as researching, it isn't necessarily about trying 412 different ways of weaving new spells or sitting in a library reading books. We're not, and I don't think anyone is, particularly interested in being told the 183 different ways you can form a Star of Force. The specifics of what your character learns isn't as interesting as that they pursue some kind of learning. Here, let me throw some thread ideas at you that would probably work:

Proving yourself worthy of the tutelage of a famous thaumaturge.
Seeking out the secret writings of a long lost sorceror prince.
Gaining access to the laboratory of a mad wizard.
Summoning terrible things from the nether realms to steal the truth from their lips.
Get caught up in the bizarre experiments of a nutzo necromancer

Basically. Do mage stuff. Don't do fighter stuff.

That being said:

Quote:
There's also the 'there's no reason why combat couldn't be considered research' approach?
You want to try untested spells in the middle of combat, knock yourself out.
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Old September 27, 2018, 02:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I mean, what better way to find out how they work right? :P

But you're right, I was probably getting too hung up on the research aspect that was mentioned. Felt like this was a push to move people playing mages away from the exploration and practical 'I use magic to get **** done, not sit in a lab all day studying it' sort of style and actually a shift towards the dnd wizards archetype of bookish wizards that get their skills from learning and research.

Thanks for taking the time to reply grim.
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