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Old November 30, 2007, 10:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Just a little place to ramble about this and that and all things pertaining to Gitana. Very little to ramble over at this point in time, but I'm sure there will be much to say in the future. For now I'm just excited to get her started, working on the character's background, trying to decided how to kick her off (been working with Hanzi for that, so he's been great).

Only frustration at the moment is having one of my characters already in Natura and being unable to extract her until the next season. Sort of figured this would happen - putting her somewhere at the beginning of the season and regretting it...but there's so few places where she could go for Druidism that fit -her- (and fewer places still where I actually want to interact).

It came down to a choice, I let someone else make that choice, and now there's no way to fix it up that I can see...so I'm stuck trying to maneuver Gitana around Natura for the time being. Not really all that fun, I tell you! So it's the wilderness forums for me in terms of interacting (until I start drop kicking Gitana around the empire, which I'm sure will happen at some point or another). That's fine, really. Just so long as other people don't mind.

I've been giving a lot of thought into the Talvia write-up lately. Trying to figure out how to organize it. Think I have a template in mind, but we'll see how it works! I may have to pick at Jen's brain a little here and there, but here's hoping the images in my head lead me to an accurate depiction of the weapon she's made me so giddy about. Yes, I'm giddy...about a scarf with hooks and barbs. Cut me some slack, okay?

Anyway, look forward to all that is Gitana and Eventide and L'Evienne and what have you
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Old November 30, 2007, 12:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I've decided to use this thread as a dumping ground for the talvia write-up I'm working on. I have the description written and hope to next work on the history. It's the skill tree that'll give me troubles, I just know it. Anyway, I'll poke Avrie and Anora about this via PM so they know it's here so they're welcome to give comments / tips / suggestions
The Talvia
The Deceptive Scarf of the Air'riela Gypsies
History
Protection for the Persecuted
Drifters persecuted for their beliefs and heritage, Air'riela Gypsy women developed the talvia as a method of descrete protection against those who might seek to do them harm. Gypsies have long been looked upon with malice, the belief that they bring theft and sin wherever they go a common prejudice. While not all gypsies mean the gaje--or strangers--harm, there are family groups that have acquired the gypsies a foul reputation, but to outsiders one gypsy can look or sound very much like the other. And thus the persecution.

Although many of the men are skilled in the arts of the sword or Ataa, women are dissuaded from this path, but they are not excluded from the violence visited on their people. To protect themselves, the women developed the talvia, a swathe of clothe made to resemble the sashes and scarves common of their attire. As to not give the appearance of outward violence, and thus hoping to avoid unprovoked attacks, they disguised its function as a weapon by tucking the barbs out of sight. To the untrained or unknowledged eye, the glints of metal along the seams look little more than decorative pieces adding to the fancy patterns swirling throughout the woven piece.

With weaving a popular pasttime of the Air'riela, the weapon spread from kumpania to kumpania until it became a common place fixture to those women and children who felt the protection necessary. The added history of dancers and hand-to-hand combat has lent itself to some of the more graceful movements of the talvia, although this came later. In the early stages of its development, many of the techniques were quick and sweeping, more slap-dash in appearance, due to its nature as a defensive weapon meant to give the women time to flee for safety. While many of the techniques developed since are not meant for an offensive attack, its use has become more fluid over time while still remaining effective.
Description
Appearance, Benefits, Problems
The talvia resembles a sash or scarf and can be worn about the waist or shoulders as one would wear such a garment and with a length suggested of equal or slightly longer to the person wielding it (for this reason talvias are typically made for the individual rather than made in quantity). They are weighted on both ends with strips of metal sewn into the seams. These metal bits are attached via flexing hinges to barbed hooks. The hooks are rolled slightly inward at the tips, the barbs fashioned so that strands of fabric can tuck the hooks up against the sash. This hides the barbs from view, making the talvia look like any other decorative piece of cloth. When the scarf is lashed in a whip-like motion these barbs loosen from the restraining strands. The barbs unfurl and may do significant damage if given the opportunity to latch on to an obstacle.

While talvias are highly mobile, not only easy to carry but easy to conceal, they require a good deal of maintenance. The seams where the barbs are anchored often need to be replaced or resewn and sometimes barbs can go missing if they have torn off the talvia. Talvias vary in how easy they are to rip depending on the quality of the fabric or the skill of the individual making the weapon. The most common fabric used is wool made from goats, sheep or llamas given that these animals are the usual traveling companions of the Air'riela gypsies. Silk talvias are rare. Because they resemble the garments of the Air'riela, they tend to be brightly colored and woven with brilliant designs.

Talvias are generally viewed as the weapon of women and children among the Air'riela given its appearance and weight. These were never meant to be offensive, but rather a defensive mechanism used to catch and tangle the weapons of their attackers, giving the woman or child time to flee to safety. It is probable that talvias are sometimes lost in the process of these attacks if the individual wielding the weapon is incapable of untangling their scarf from their enemy.
Availability
It is rare to find an individual outside of the Air'riela Gypsies with a talvia. This is due to the tight-lipped nature of the Air'riela towards outsiders, revealing none of their secrets in fear of being misunderstood. Outsiders with talvias are likely to have had closer relations with the gypsy people, stolen one, or picked one off a dead gypsy. In rare cases they have been sold to outsiders.

Knowledge of the talvia would thus be hard to come by and not a well-known choice of weapon across the empire. Only areas familiar with the presence of the gypsies who have witnessed or heard of such weapons of defense would likely know what a talvia is.
Skill Tree
Basic

At this level the individual learns safe stances and movements that provide no suggestion of danger to the wielder. Beginners will often learn not only how to use their talvia in the most basic of manners, but also how to do basic repairs in the event that a barb loosens or comes off. Students will learn how to avoid snagging the barbs on their clothing and the best angles to use when faced with different attackers (ie: specific weapon types or unarmed individuals). Techniques will include those that provide the easiest way to defend and flee. The student learns also how to secure the talvia about their waist or shoulders in such a way that it is easily removed in action.
Techniques Learned: Belt Blow, Cat's Claw, De-Tangle, The Snare, The Turn Out
Professional

At this level there is more fluidity to the movements and more risk in the techniques executed by the wielder. The student is taught how to handle attackers in more intimiate proximities so that they may stick around a little longer and fight rather than immediately fleeing to safety.
Techniques Learned: The Hand Bind, The Whip, The Wrap
Elite

To the observer, a wielder at this level may begin to look like something of a dancer in their movements, both offensively and defensively. The techniques have more of an ebb and flow, lacking a lot of the slapdash rigidity of the two lower levels. Those who reach this level often find themselves able of fending off attacks of various different natures for far longer while taking a somewhat more offensive approach to their techniques. The techniques learned at this level are a little more aggressive in nature. Students are strongly encouraged to improvise and rely on maneuvers of their own creation.
Techniques Learned: Free Swing, The Garrote, Handcuffs
Master

Talvia practioners are well-versed enough in their craft that they also find themselves capable of manipulating the talvia's movement with their feet or legs. The wielder is taught more daring, risky moves that bring the barbs closer to the body and require agility and flexbility to pull off.
Techniques Learned: Razor Toes
Grandmaster

At this level anything that the wielder is physically capable of tends to go. Practioners are often gifted with a second talvia at this level during which they learn to wield a pair of the scarves at one time, a considerable feat given the difficulty of ensuring that neither snags on the other during the execution of the techniques. Creativity is well rewarded at this level as the Grandmaster is encouraged to explore the depths of their craft and go to extreme lengths to perfect it. Fleeing in combat is usually unnecessary at this stage - they can more than hold their own.
Techniques Learned:
Techniques
These techniques are mostly simple guidelines to any number of movements or feints that a practioner of the talvia can be taught at these levels. Variants of these forms vary from kumpania to kumpania and it is often likely that different people will teach different techniques, depending on what they feel has worked best for them over the eras. These are not the only techniques taught in this discipline.

Basic
Belt Blow - The 'Belt Blow' is often taught and explained as the quickest way to drop or dissuade an (unarmored) opponent male or female. With this attack, the wielder holds the talvia a third of the way up from the barbs at one end and swings the talvia in a backward circular motion that brings the hand level with their shoulder. As the scarf reaches the down position, the wielder swings the talvia up and forward, bringing the barbs towards the crotch of their attacker. If struck correctly or without interference the barbs will sink into the fabric and, if lucky, snag the flesh below.

Cat's Claw
- Holding the talvia nearly at the center, the wielder performs a diagonal swipe from left to right (or right to left) starting either at the top and moving downward or at the bottom moving upward. This maneuver will rarely result in the entanglement of a weapon, but is meant to score damage on the attacker.

De-Tangle - in the works

The Snare - This maneuver is primarily used to tangle the attacker's weapon in the talvia. The wielder snaps the talvia across the length of their body and forward (right-handed wielders snap from the right-side across the body to the left with a forward movement) with a hard twist of the wrist as the talvia fully extends. This movement should give the talvia enough movement to wrap around a weapon. A hard jerk backwards tightens the talvia around the weapon. The barbs will either snag on the weapon or amidst the fabric of the rest of the scarf, anchoring the talvia in place until the attacker or wielder manages to pull the talvia or weapon free.

The Turn Out - A simple defensive maneuver to be used when an attacker has gotten into the danger zone. It is suggested to use this technique when facing an unarmed opponent at lower levels as it can be a risky maneuver against an individual with a weapon. With this attack, the wielder grasps the talvia with both hands, one on either end of the scarf. If the attacker thrusts forward towards the face, the wielder uses their dominant hand to wrap the scarf over the top of the arm, pulling the appendage downward while also pulling the scarf taunt so that there is no give to the fabric. The scarf can therefore either push the arm away or lock it into place. It is suggested to push the arm back at lower levels to give the wielder a chance to flee.

Professional
The Hand Bind - A variation of the 'Turn Out' technique, the Hand Bind is a defensive maneuver applied to the invading hand or wrist area either as a follow up to a block or offensive attack. This can also be a useful defense against someone who has grabbed the scarf with one or both hands. Once the scarf contacts the foe the wielder moves one hand in a circle, wrapping the hand, or hands, one or more times. This secure grip can now be used to apply various locks, pulls and pushes.

The Whip - Holding the talvia at one end, the wielder snaps the weapon forward in a manner similar to the whip. This can be done as an overhand or originating from the wielder's side, although it is recommended to snap the talvia from a side angle given the risks of bringing the talvia's ends close to the head. This maneuver is good mostly for unfurling the barbs from their restraining fabric strands, but can also be used to score damage against an attacker. Can cause weapon entanglement if executed well.

The Wrap - Similar to 'The Snare' in that this techique is used to capture, with 'The Wrap' the wielder lashes the scarf in a forward motion while holding the scarf at one end and allowing the other end to snap outward. The scarf furls around the opponent's neck and, if done correctly, the barbs latch into either the skin, clothing, or a section of the scarf. This technique can be tricky, especially if the barbs catch the middle of the scarf rather than closing around the throat. It is also best performed at an angle rather than head-on, otherwise there is a chance the scarf will latch onto the attacker's shoulder rather than wrap around their neck.

Elite
Free Swing - The wielder grasps the scarf in its center with both hands spread a hand-width apart from one another (this is to keep a measure of control as the scarf is maneuvered). This technique is often best executed by those with a dance background for it involves not only the careful movement of the hands, but also the correct positioning of the feet. The wielder rotates one hand after the other in small circles to pivot the long lengths of the scarf on either side, spinning them. As the hands put the talvia to spinning, the wielder steps forward and pivots in a half-circle, putting force through their arms to the talvia to give it an extra thrust as they swing it towards their opponent.

The Garrote - While the wielder needs no skill pertaining to the actual barbs of the talvia, this technique is taught later in skill tree because it is risky and involves the practioner to be up-close to their opponent rather than heading for safety. With this technique, the wielder should be behind the attacker holding the talvia at either end, the material taut. The talvia should be brought over the attacker's head and pulled tightly backwards, relying on upper arm strength to either pull the attacker off balance to the ground or hold them in place. A frontal Garrote attack is more difficult, but not entirely impossible.

Master
Razor Toes - This technique is useful in the instance that a talvia has one end on the ground with one hand clasping the scarf near the other end. With their weaker foot, the wielder takes a step forward and follows through with a sweeping, forward kick of their dominant leg. The leg should move forward into the talvia and sweep it upwards towards the attacker. The closer the talvia practioner is to their attacker the better, although some space is needed to get off a forceful kick.

Grandmaster
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...I can't help it, the road just rolls out behind me...

Last edited by Gitana Chumomisto; December 7, 2007 at 02:20 PM.
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Old November 30, 2007, 01:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Great intro on the Talvia. I love it! Here's a thread warming present for you.
I hope you enjoy. Every girl needs a great purse. Even one that can be used as a weapon.


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Old November 30, 2007, 03:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Welcome to the family!! Lovely lovely to see you!

@~~~~

A rose!
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Old November 30, 2007, 04:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well...it definitely looks like you could knock someone out with that purse! Aw thanks for the lovely thread present!

Thankee Nikki Is quite lovely to be here!
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Old December 1, 2007, 08:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Talvia write-up update

Techniques added for basic and Availability section edited a little. Also...wanted people to give me an idea of how long/wide they think a talvia might be. I'm estimating 3 - 5 feet in length depending on who makes it / the person wielding it (a child would have a smaller talvia, for instance). Width would be about 1/2 a foot - 1 foot, I think. Suggestions on that?
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Old December 2, 2007, 08:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I love your techniques so far, Gitana. I'd say 3-5 is a really good distance... maybe even longer. A sword is usually three feet long, and you want some ability to tangle one outside their reach. The cat claws thing for example... so if you held it in the middle and swung, you'd have 2.5 feet of length to tangle or blind someone.. .any longer might be awkward....any shorter useless? Maybe the Talvia should be on average exactly the same length as the person's height??

This is a difficult writeup. I'm glad your tackling it.

I've got some preliminary ideas written down for Yadasa. I will post them sometime this week. I just need a reason or a way to make it work. That requires some sort of thought.
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Old December 6, 2007, 02:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Moving along with the talvia write-up, it would seem. More or less. I'm stumbling over level descriptions and very slowly coming up with different techniques to use. I'm trying to decide how a person can detangle their talvia from not only a weapon, but clothes as well - if anyone has a good technical description, please send it my way! I've at least managed to find a website with "Flexible Weapon" technique descriptions. Unweighted and weighted scarves happen to be amongst those, thankfully
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Old December 22, 2007, 11:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I've been busy busy busy with Iseult lately and thus not much time for Gitana. Not that much is going on. I've just gotten myself involved with so much with my other PC that I hate to fall behind with her because...there's a lot of threads to fall behind with. A lot easier to catch up with Gitana, who is involved in, I think, 3 active threads.

I've been a little dismayed with the talvia write-up lately. I've gotten a lot of encouragement with it, but my drive to complete it has died because I've been told that no write-ups are being put through the Arms WF until the combat primer gets approved...which I know a lot of people don't seem to like and no progression seems to have been made with it anyway. I see no final draft up for it at any rate. So why work on something if it's not going to be approved? A waste of time. So it's waiting in the wings and I'll leap on it when I know it'll actually get have a chance of being looked at.

To combat that I've asked Kalinda if I can go ahead with a talvia training thread anyway, showed her the write-up thus far, and let's see if I can get things moving with that. Write-ups are guidelines, after all. Not every skill used in Alleria has a write-up.

I'm trying to decide what direction to take Gitana because right now she's very undeveloped. I've been thinking of a few background skills to add--weaving maybe, possible dancing. I am more than certain she'll be leaving her kumpania - I'm thinking maybe with the excuse to go find her luck. Maybe I'll poke about to get someone to mod a fortune teller telling her that she needs to search for it. I think it'll be fun having Gitana roam the empire playing her viola for a living and just being very gypsy-ish...just on her own (or with Jehan, if I can persuade him ).

Food for thought anyway and thought I'd pop in and wave and let people know I haven't died or given up on Gitana!
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Old December 23, 2007, 12:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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First off... *HUGS*

Secondly, don't give up on the Talvia. I promise *doesn't even cross her fingers* that I will do my best tomorrow or later in this week (I'm working argh!) to flush out the missing parts... even if we have to get really really creative. I have a ton of bola loving SCA buddies... you know the type. Big, grunting, sweating, bragging, go-beat-each-other-up-on-the-weekends and I've pm'd a mayday out to them and fired off what you have so far. If I can't figure something out, they will be able too. Oh, and that other little annoying make-you-see-red issue is being delt with too so further arms writeups/submissions shouldn't be a problem either.

*lights a candle for hope*
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Old December 23, 2007, 12:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I know you're very very very busy so I'm not expecting you to go running about doing all of this stuff Of course, any help is welcomed (it's just fun that I ask for help on my rough draft and all I get from the peanut gallery is "looks great!" lol makes you want to shake them and say "help me make it complete!" but ah well...) I haven't looked at it recently so I'm sure I could come up with a few more techniques and what have you.

Thanks for going around bashing heads - I appreciate it...you're probably much more effective at it than I am! *hugs*
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Old December 28, 2007, 05:08 PM   #12 (permalink)
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My companionship expires tomorrow (I only wanted the pretty avvy - although I know someone whose avvy has now disappeared with the end of their companionship and since it's the only reason I bought it, I'll be all ugh if it goes away!) and despite that I decided to completely pretty up my profile. I like it...even though the name is hard as heck to read. Oh well. The background is spiffy anyway.

Kalinda gave me the thumbs up to do the talvia since it's not an outrageously weird weapon and the write-up looks fine so far.

Speaking of the talvia, I need to take a poke at it and see what else I can add to it before I leap into doing a first draft...
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Old December 30, 2007, 09:22 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Ugh. What a waste of money, to buy a companionship only to have the reason to buy it go away when it's over.

Waiting for some sort of outline to be provided in the Arms forge because, as of the moment, I have no idea what the heck is expected in terms of what's being looked for. Weapons = I'm clueless. I've asked for one, let's see if I get it.
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